Political Contributions For Elections By Individuals In RIVERDALE,NJ

ADMIN Name posted: 2005-11-17 03:16:15	PAULK
	We appreciate the activity and contributions in posting. However this topic is to hard to police and to many things are being said with bad tast and capweb is more geared to political issues as opossed to Religious issues. We kindly ask that you continue your chat on another site.

jim Name posted: 2005-11-17 07:40:03	capweb
	the secular world has to police the so-called christian world! How Sad. Thanks Capweb.

Morris Land Name posted: 2005-11-17 08:34:40	Earl Paul
	How does this guy bounch back?

jim Name posted: 2005-11-17 09:48:49

blog

This blog wreaks with feral excitement. The allegations have been made through chaotic and enthusiastic rantings of unsupported origin. Where is the quiet rabbinic wisdom of the Ultimate Rabbi? Beware of adders who are rash, outrageous, and dangerous!....Jesus and Jeremiah hated the abuses of the Temple and the sinfulness of them that served there. However, there was never an attempt to turn the believers to apostasy. The unbridaled, untempered, and scathing spouts of clandestine origin DO NOT relieve the originator of ultimate responsibility and consequences of thoughtless chatter. Just as the denial of any leader caught in sinfulness is sufficient for exoneration of the acts.....God will exact retribution at His timing and at His severity. This retribution will be met to all involved to include: 1) The alleged perpertrators, 2) the alleged victims (participants), 3) the peanut gallery on this blog that spews hatred, not only toward the subjects in question, but for those that disagree with them. If God is Love, where is He on this blog?

A Child of God Name posted: 2005-11-17 11:53:42

Jim

God is everywhere! You just have to know how to find Him. Jim, if you have found peace with God in the decisions you have made for you and your family, then so be it. Let others find their peace however they must. He knows those with pure hearts and He will lead them in His on time, and in His on way. The decision to do whatever will be based on where you are in this story. Every story has an ending, and sometimes they end the way we hope, and sometimes they don't. Since we have not written this story we can not determine the ending, and since we don't have the book we can't look ahead to see the ending. We just have to wait and see and hope if you like, but it has already been decided by God what it will be. With there being so much hurt and pain in this story you can't help, but hope for healing! But who's really hurt, and who really needs healing? Who? Who? Who? So many questions! A mystery in deed! We really want know until we read the end. So we all are just playing the roles we have been given, and we just have to trust the author and finisher of our faith to take us wherever He so desires. His love is here because people are here, and he loves us all! Shalom

jim Name posted: 2005-11-17 12:49:40	child of God
	He is found at last! Thank you my brother or sister. Like David I long for the finalization of God's will. I hurt for myself and the venomous raging of others. I am cognizant of the process, but How long! How long! Let God arise and his enemies be scattered!

easy big fella Name posted: 2005-11-17 17:37:25	to jim
	take a chill pill dude. while you're busy quoting all that scripture, what about the one that says its not good to be overly religious? Take a look in th emirror - I think he's talking to you! Anyone who can't debate without cutting and pasting a dozen chapters or so, needs to read some fiction or something to balance out.

jim Name posted: 2005-11-17 18:08:15	to easy
	thanks, you have helped me more than you might think. I do read a variety, but circumstances are not the same with fiction. The reason I say thanks is you have helped me make up my mind to discontinue posting. Thanks and God bless you.

Well, Well Name posted: 2005-11-17 19:33:01	Paulk Observation
	the other site is on yahoo goups as: chhcnewsbriefs

able Name posted: 2005-11-17 22:34:06

Jim

Jim, it is people like you that make me glad I have rethought my views on christianity. Thanks for clearing it up for me. You have made me feel good about my decision to never go to church again. With zealots like you, the devil (if there is one) has a real chance down here on earth. Until I heard from you on this blog I couldn't make up my mind, but you should feel good in helping me realize that the church is a joke. I had a lot of questions until I read your blogs but now I know that what I was feeling was right. Maybe you can turn others like me away as well. Keep up the good work. Maybe you and the evil one (EP) can start a new work together when they sell the Cathedral.

new christian Name posted: 2005-11-17 23:35:16

Brother Jim

Thank you able for making me feel better about what I was feeling. I have not been a christian that long but was really confused about how a mature christian like Brother Jim could support someone like Bishop who had done such bad things to people. I understand supporting your church and stuff like that but I don't support doing the kind of stuff the Paulk's did. I am glad for finding this site before I got to deep into this christianity stuff. I guess I'll go back to my favorite bar. At least they leave me and my family alone and don't try to abuse them. I trust them even though I don't know most of them. Would be great if the church could learn from them.

insight Name posted: 2005-11-18 05:28:19	to Jim
	You have been such a help to many of us. Don't let able who also is masquerading as a new christian get to you. It is a feeble attempt to make you feel bad. anybody can see its the same person. Don't stop writing to us.

Plain truth Name posted: 2005-11-18 07:57:26

Jim, able, new christian

People like Jim, quoting their "book" of religious words, almost always, out of context, but always as a weapon. This has ben going on since before Jesus' arrival. Jesus had harse words for them. . . Basically, they have a religious spirit, which satan will not let them recognize. You see, they are simiply trying to justify themselves to God. They do this by being "more righteous" than the fellow believers. It can take many forms, often dependent on the religious backgound. .. I suspect Jim came from a Baptist background. Anyway, they don't understand that satan uses peoples desire to "get close" to God, often combined with guilt or unworthiness, to inspire them to believe that they need to do "more". Only then can they feel justified before God. . . But, don't think all Christians are like that. Find a Church where there is accountability. Not one founded, owned and controlled by any single human. That is a great place for satan to work behind the scenes.

Plain truth Name posted: 2005-11-18 07:57:27

Jim, able, new christian

People like Jim, quoting their "book" of religious words, almost always, out of context, but always as a weapon. This has ben going on since before Jesus' arrival. Jesus had harse words for them. . . Basically, they have a religious spirit, which satan will not let them recognize. You see, they are simiply trying to justify themselves to God. They do this by being "more righteous" than the fellow believers. It can take many forms, often dependent on the religious backgound. .. I suspect Jim came from a Baptist background. Anyway, they don't understand that satan uses peoples desire to "get close" to God, often combined with guilt or unworthiness, to inspire them to believe that they need to do "more". Only then can they feel justified before God. . . But, don't think all Christians are like that. Find a Church where there is accountability. Not one founded, owned and controlled by any single human. That is a great place for satan to work behind the scenes.

S. Perdue Name posted: 2005-11-18 17:40:32	If and Newby
	Where y'all be at these dayes?

newby Name posted: 2005-11-18 18:11:55	s. perdue
	weuns be pukin caus des idjuts fitn wi ech udder. mus be crats, das trowin mo mud dan a presdent lection. da tlk bout God but da act lik de devil. nobod luvs, da jest no hate.

likely Name posted: 2005-11-18 20:39:15	Paulk
	Babylon is falling

bitforbyte Name posted: 2005-11-18 22:01:04	CHHC-Paulk
	I wonder who's on the schedule for Sunday's sermon?

Observer Name posted: 2005-11-18 23:22:22	ICCC
	Does anyone know what came out of the ICCC? Is there a new archbishop? What is going on with the ICCC? Will it survive?

Observer Name posted: 2005-11-18 23:22:43	ICCC
	Does anyone know what came out of the ICCC? Is there a new archbishop? What is going on with the ICCC? Will it survive?

If Name posted: 2005-11-19 07:38:54	S. Perdue
	I bin ova inny groop. I dint no yawl wuz still heea. I shooda nown yawl won't gone mind tha minastrayta.

member Name posted: 2005-11-19 22:36:30

from other yahoo blog

The following was posted on the other blog. I have visited CHHC when in Atlanta. I am concerned and saddened by these events. This is not only happening in Atlanta but in many other "Spiritually Advanced" churches across America. I pray for you, my brothers and sisters in this time to find total peace in the Sovereignty of God. I believe that what is taking place throughout the Kingdom is the result of inadequate foundation teaching concerning the Kingdom message. Many who have accepted this message come from years of preaching about the Son in a traditional message. Then they hear the "Kingdom" message and begain to build upon the foundation of traditional teaching. This is tremendously egredious to the future functionality of members who have joined themselves to one another in a church paradigm. Keeping this analogy simple, I believe it is like this: A person spends years in traditional church hearing teaching and preaching concerning Jesus the Son of God. One day, they find themself hearing, accepting, and then proclaiming we are Sons also. Accepting this part of the Kingdom message and choosing to join with other Son's and Daughters of God, one of the God-made natural laws comes into effect. They experience "union" and reproduce. The problem which is so critical, is that this union always results in reproducing after our own kind. This is a very simple analogy I realize, but what happens physically is a manefestation of what has already occured spiritually. The Kingdom message cannot be simply added to or built on an old foundation. The old foundation must be refurbished or relaid. We must not put this "new wine" message in old wineskins or even mix it with old wine. This is equivilant to trying to move all the inner court furniture into the Most Holy Place before we enter. It isn't meant to happen. It will never happen. We must proclaim the third dimension of the "Revelation of God", which is the revelation of God, The Father. It is the experience the Glory, of oneness with the Father.The same that is experienced by husband and wives. He is desiring union with us to reproduce: But, only after his kind. In order to experience this glory, we must learn of our 3rd dimension identities, which is the "Lover of God". But we must be willing to leave our 2nd dimension identity as Sons and Daughters. We must also be willing to leave all the furnishings and what they represent in the second dimension. Remember our first dimension identity is as a child of God. We move into second dimension with the understanding of Sonship. But God isn't wanting us to remain there. There is the third dimension! The dimension of Glory. The most Holy Place of the Tabernacle. The place where we experience the "FATHER" and we become one with Him. Where He can then reproduce after Himself. We should be proclaiming a message of the Father's Love and our role as His lover. What we are seeing in this day is a church forming union with each other and reproducing after themselves. Line breeding with imperfect specimens leads to utter chaos. I have written several papers on animal breeding due to my hobbies. I have practiced line-breeding in animals and have learned through experience that the subjects must be perfect when this is practiced. When humans are involved, there is very little perfection. Results lead to less than desirable offspring! (Apply this Spiritually) There are no easy answers or reasons why to be handed out. I believe we must keep moving forward and striving for the prize. If we are focused on the Father and Him alone, We will find Faith, Hope , and Love. We will be what He needs when He needs it. He will through us minister to those their hour of need.

Workin' man Name posted: 2005-11-20 08:28:27	Paula Zahn
	Someone previously posted that the Paula Zahn expose' about Paulk and the Cathedral is to be aired tomorrow night Nov. 21 @ 8:00. Does anyone know if this is factual?

FYI Name posted: 2005-11-20 10:00:36	Paula Zahn
	The expose' has been rescheduled to Nov.29 @ 8:00.Although you might want to check your local CNN listings,cause these things change quite often.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-20 17:59:17

to member

be careful. you are very accurate with your assertions of dimensionalism. however, you have set your self as a target for criticism. I personally don't jump on the band wagon for this dimensionalism thing as it is just buzz words started by Mark Hanby who, I think, is a man of God. But too many people have grabbed onto this without the full understanding of it. don't know if you have it? but do know that the traditional teachings from the so called church of today have evolved back to the time frame before Martin Luther and the reformation. we put too much emphasis on the local church who think they are the only thing God has going. When someone does what is generally thought to be in the will of God i.e. reading and expounding on the word of God, they are ostercized and accussed of having a religious spirit. I wonder how can you have a religious spirit if you are only quoting the scriptures? then there are always those who say you are out of context but they don't explain how you are out of context, thereby invoking an abstract to be an affirmitive. the uninformed individual naturally assumes that they are correct due to the buzz words they expel. then there are those that call everyone self righteous except themselves when they don't actually understand anything about love except in the phileo realm and never in the agape realm. agape is unconditional, phileo is i love you as a brother as long as you do what i think you should do. if you meet my expectations i love you, if you don't....oh well! those that post here are seeking only to propel there own agendas. take the Hawkins, Dawkins, or whatever they call themselves... the wife is intellectual, the husband is intellectually challenged, they quote and espouse atrocities, but are ambigous and never direct to the point. it's always to protect someone, believe me, but don't make me prove it! TRUST ME....my church's motto makes me real! Is anyone real or do all want to be the saviour of the incident, one side or the other? What is the answer? Simple!! All men seek self gratification, public approval, and dominion over others-----only God produces AGAPE Love. Fight me, condemn me, say I am a self righteous idiot, I DON"T CARE.....New Christians, don't listen to Old Christians in conflict, they tend to invoke their righteousness rather than the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Now all of you old timers...have at me!

007 Name posted: 2005-11-20 19:52:24	Church today at CHHC
	OK Someone give a report of church at CHHC today...This blog site can yet live.

member Name posted: 2005-11-20 20:11:55

more gasoline for the burning

I think Kenyon may have sown the seeds of dimensionalism, or at least watered it.But Mark Hanby certainly brought it forward. If we really want to pour gas on our heads, Let talk of all things being in Him.Romans 11:36 Also Isaiah 45:7 will certainly crank up the heat on our heads. Many want to bring forth the right hand of God. But get all choked up (and religous) when the left hand of God shows up. I think that when any pure revelation is "named" by man, its demise is put into motion. The distinction (or naming)of each dimension is simply only the frame to hang physical understanding on. When I was born I was my Mother's baby. No one could look at me in my blankets and know if I was a male or female. The I became my parents son. Now I am my wifes lover and husband. I wouldn't call that dimensionalism but it certainly was a progression. I think that the will of God is everything that happens, yes everything. Our perception of Rightousness is irrevelant and has no basis in a conversation where the words Agape love are mentioned. If my feelings for anyone changes due to a perceived evil act, then Agape love was never in force. Agape love will seek to bring the "perceived" evil person to me with compassion and Grace.Our tongues would never be a tool of condemnation. All fruit whether green, ripe or rotten is from the same source and judgement will only be relevant to each of us and our needs at a specific place in our life. I guess it is the whole Vessel of Honour, Vessel of Dishonor diatribe. The both serve His purpose and one is not more God than the other......Oh Oh.... I cross the line didn't I?

Cindy Name posted: 2005-11-20 20:59:57

re: member

Member, I must say it's very refreshing to hear someone who has certainly listened to the word of GOD concerning our responsibility to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. This is the most difficult of all at times. Your ideas on "dimensionalism" are thought provoking and I personaly strive for that third dimension of Glory. In fact, everything you said is right on. There are those of us who agree with your views. Peace.

Cindy Name posted: 2005-11-20 21:04:27	re: Careful
	I HEAR YA!

Working man Name posted: 2005-11-21 06:25:05	Earl Paulk
	Has anyone heard a report on Earl Paulk since his surgery? It seems that it has been very hush hush.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-21 07:06:29

to member

you are very well read and obviously have an ear to hear. E. W. Kenyon indeed was a great believer of dimensionalism. But you my brother have gone much farther than dimensionalism, you have correctly restored (on this blog) the soveriegnty of God. ....I particularly like the right hand of God, however there are very few that understand the function of the right and left hands of God. It appears that you would be a great one to expound on our God being the God of opposites with supreme authority. you may be able to explain what true Agape love is especially as used when Jesus asked Peter three times "Do you love me"? ..would love to sit down and talk with you. ...Jakes said it well last night on television when you explained the lame, he described them as those who know but refuse to walk in it. My friend, God has revealed it to you, please, please, walk and share in it.

member Name posted: 2005-11-21 09:37:15

The Left Hand of God

It is essentially the association of God with evil that is the stumbling block for most, in this area of kingdom reality. Therefore, let us consider some places in the Scripture identifying God as having used evil. In the midst of his testing recognized he was suffering evil at the hand of the Lord (Job 1:20ff, 2:9f). In spite of the theology of all his friends, Job clearly confirmed this throughout his tribulations (Job 42:17). Again we find the Lord brought evil upon His people because their deeds were evil. Yet the apostle Paul tells us to overcome evil with good (Jer. 26:3, Da. 9:14, Ro. 12:19ff, Pr. 25:2f). We discover still further examples of God-inspired evil when we see that God puts His people to the sword (Jer. 42:17, 44:11; Ez. 14:21). However, the scripture states, "He that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword" (Re. 13:10). How horrified we become when we consider the inhumane and wicked brutes, who turned wild beasts upon the Christians in the Roman amphitheater. However, the Lord also made His people prey to wild beasts (Ez. 14:51f, 21). The arsonist is punishable by our laws, yet the Lord burns whole cities (Ge. 19:24, Jude 7, Jer. 21:10). If the quarantine officer allowed the introduction of a plague we would consider him liable, yet God sends the pestilence (Jer. 32:42, 42:17, Ez. 14:21). He brings starvation by famine upon entire nations, destroys entire cities, and desolates whole countries (2Ki 6:33, Jer. 19:9, 42:17, 44:11, Ez. 14:21, Jer. 26:18, Jonah 3:4, Neh. 13:18, Jer. 44:2). It was the Lord who sent an evil spirit upon Saul, and a lying spirit to cause all Ahab's prophets to lie to him (1Sa. 16:14ff, 19:9; 1Ki. 22:22). "Who is he who speaks, and it comes to pass, when the Lord commands it not?" "Is it not out of the mouth of the Most High that evil and good proceed?" (Lam. 3:37f, Isa. 55:10f). Solomon unveils some manifold wisdom of God by declaring, "The Lord has made all things for His own end." "He even made the wicked or lawless one for the day of evil" (Pr. 16:4). The Lord clearly declares there are none that can deliver out of His hand: for He will work, who will hinder or reverse it (Ec. 7:13, Isa. 43:13). These passages should help to make it clear that God does use evil acts. Moreover, the very same acts may differ from the way they appear because of the one who is doing them. Now consider that evil enacted with proper authority loses its "immoral" quality. Examples of evil enacted with proper authority are found in paternal or political authority, these are a type or an allegory of true godly authority. All evil perpetrated through proper authority loses its "immoral" quality. That is, evil enacted by parents upon their children, masters upon their servants, the state on its subjects, or by God on His creatures loses its "immoral" quality. This is because it promotes some beneficial purpose and is corrective. Its moral quality lies, not in the evil but in the correction existing between the one who inflicts and the one who suffers. Consequently, even evil committed by morally criminal men loses its immoral quality when attributed to the Lord. That is, if evil accomplishes the Lord's purpose it is no longer immoral. The same act that is full of "moral evil" when viewed in humanity appears as "moral goodness" and glory when seen from the Divine Creator's vantage point. God Himself still calls it evil, but claims He is the real source of the power behind it (Isa. 10:5ff). No evil created by God can have the least taint of moral depravity. In so much as His designing of it is concerned. This is because He always directs it toward the reconciliation of His creation. May the Lord give us ears to hear and minds to fully understand this reality. "For He afflicts, yet He has compassion according to the abundance of His kindness" (Lam. 3:32). "I am now running for cover"

Plain truth Name posted: 2005-11-21 09:55:13	member, careful
	You do err in falling for the sin of Eve.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-21 10:34:53

to member

don't run, you are right on. Traditionalism will get you shot at (fuguratively) but truth when heard and applied will set men free. Our churches have more laws than did the old covenant. the elite of the assemblies(I did not say church) hold on to these concoctions to whip the saints into line. Our saints know not the freedom of the Lord, rather serve at the pleasure of the present day pharisees to please and avoid criticism. They sip their wine in private and condemn others for the same thing in public. Where is their freedom. They have become "men pleasers". Ask a fellow christian to accompany you to an event, if they don't want to go, they will hum and haw around, searching for excuses to avoid hurting your feelings rather than saying "I don't want to go". If that isn't bondage, then I fail to understand what bondage is. ....God wants us to be free and to serve him out of the love in our hearts, not by rules made by man to control us! ....you are so right about the morality of an evil act. Consider the stoning of Stephen, to me, that was evil, but to the religious sect of the day (even Saul, who later became Paul) it was the "right thing to do". The question would be "did it accomplish God's purpose"? I would say definitely, it is a part of our scriptures and serves the purpose of God. Stephen even ask God to forgive them!....you are a member of the church, but based on what I read, it's not CHHC. I have been there for years and thought I was the only one that read the Kingdom Message in other places (based on what I hear there from the leadership and members). thank you, you don't have to hide, you need to let your fingers do the walking through our hearts. As stated earlier, get ready for the attacks, but somehow I feel that you are a veteran and treat them as water on a duck's back. ....most people think that evil started with Eve's fall (plain truth) however, it is obvious from the scriptures that it existed before as all first Adam got was the "KNOWLEDGE" on it, thereby establishing that it already existed. You gave so many good scriptures with most coming from the old testament, some will say that is past, yet they only need to look into the 1st chapter of Colosians to determine who created all things and for what purpose. John 8:44 also tells that the devil was a murderer from the beginning, obviously created for that purpose. TALK ON, BROTHER!

Plain truth Name posted: 2005-11-21 14:10:20	careful
	Obviously evil began before man was created, but you miss-understand the sin of Eve. Ponder it more closely. While I could tell you, if you discover it yourself, it will have more meaning. Hint . . it isn't what you have read so often.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-21 14:30:52

plain truth

your guessing game is ironic when you consider your name of plain truth. not meant to be combative, but stated with tongue-in-cheek. .....Eve's sin is outlined in Isiah 14:12 and the 28th chapter of Ezekial. However, the sin is not of Eve's action as a female but Adam's as mankind. If you study very carefully, their name was Adam, male and female created he them. They were the chosen ones, the light bearers, the day star of mankind without the knowledge of good and evil. Wanting to be God, finally becoming as one of the heavenly hosts and cast into this world alienated from God until the ultimate day star arrives to restore the fallen one(s). It certainly wasn't an apple!

careful Name posted: 2005-11-21 16:35:46	to member
	you probably have read this, but type in A.P. Adams and read one of his articles on the Purpose of Evil. He wrote from 1885 until about 1925. He can also be found under George Hawtin's site.

Enlightened One Name posted: 2005-11-21 16:57:27

Careful, palin, member, and Jim

Did you happen to read the ancient writings of Matthiaus Ysetromski in his "Compliation of Thoughts and Meditations?" I especially enjoyed his insight in chapters thirty three and forty seven, where he said men like you are DUMB AS HELL! Blah... blah... blah... They should have sent you to New Orleans a few months ago. You could've stopped all the rioting by boring them to sleep. I guess you all got your theological degrees at the don paulk school of narclepsy. BOOOORRRRRIIINNNNGGGG!!!!

palin Name posted: 2005-11-21 17:15:42	enlightened one
	we did attend school to learn to spell. forgive us if we falter. enlightened people would obviously skip over boooooooring entries, unless they are not so enlightened! However, since we believe as we do, there must be a purpose for your satire and lack of wit. However, it must be in the distant future!

Member Name posted: 2005-11-21 17:36:07

Adams

Careful, I have read most of Hawtin and a great deal of Adams. I will go back a read the chapters you have mentioned. Thanks for the laugh Enlightened One. If you knew me you would realize that I do not take myself seriouly. When I think I know something about this world, something or someone happens to do something which causes me to scratch my head in wonder. Enlightened One I don't have any theological degrees but I do find your choice of comparisons interesting. Don't you think that the people in New Orleans have been slammed enough? I think they need no one to explain a Sovereign God to them.They have a very real grasp on that subject right about now. My taking the time and energy to respond to you proves your point however. I am dumb as as your perception of hell!

member Name posted: 2005-11-21 17:44:10	#%@*#@%#
	Just when I thought I had this meekness and humilty down pat, along comes a #*&%*##&* Enlighthtened One.

john jurrius Name posted: 2005-11-21 17:55:36	#*&%*##&*
	you all need to pray and fast as soon as possible your part of the problem. Walk with light,not in the shadow.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-21 18:09:16	john jurris
	thanks, but let's walk in light and not with light. Jesus is light, let's become one as was His prayer.,,,,by the way, what problem are you talking about? what is the problem? what is the good that will come out of the problem? what should we pray for?....maybe the enlightened one can help! Last post by member must be counterfeit, I thought he could spell better than that.

DP Name posted: 2005-11-21 18:24:32	member/careful
	Ok, I am Don Paulk, member and careful. I don't have my brother available to tell me what to do right now, so I only have time to pat myself on the back and hope one of you jump in and agree.

dontthinkso Name posted: 2005-11-21 18:32:42	DP
	some know differently. but go ahead and pat yourself on the back, just don't break your arm. some comics belong on the stage, others under it.

john jurrius Name posted: 2005-11-21 22:28:06	man & light
	We are light. Maybe you are missing the point. By the way,the problem is we have forgotten what free agency means. The name is jurrius not jurris, Talk about spelling.

woof Name posted: 2005-11-21 22:40:25	get this...
	Apparently there is so much more to ALL these peoples messy lives!

Going On Name posted: 2005-11-21 22:50:53

Real the real victims stand up?

The real victim's in any of this big huge mess are the people who sit in the pews. All involved parties are guilty of thinking of NO one except themselves. Period. How funny, after all these years. It is always the ones who left, leave or no longer are on staff that scream foul. It's time for these shallow immature people to go some place and sit down. You aren't a victim if you continue to play the game. Do not try to get people to be sucked into your social-idiotic foolishness. It's time to face the facts, pay the fiddler and reap what you have sown.

reply to 007 Name posted: 2005-11-21 22:55:17	Church today at CHHC
	I heard Jim Hart was there. Anyone would be better than Donnie Earl. Speaking of Donnie Earl, I heard that Don and Clairence are pushing for him to return. That would be a huge mistake, he would just run the few remaining members off....Well the ones he didnt run off the first time around!

wondering Name posted: 2005-11-21 23:42:05	DEP
	How would Donnie E run people off? I thought he was supposed to be pretty charasmatic and a lot more interesting than his father? Whats wrong with him?

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 05:17:13	light
	thanks for the correction, that's why I asked for forgiveness at first. You are correct, we are light, however I am not so sure about the free moral agent. Could you explain. I am not being smart, I just want to know. You seem to have something to contribute.

Hearer Name posted: 2005-11-22 06:11:32	Member & Careful
	Thank you for communicating here. Having been at the Cathedral for a long time, I have missed the stimulating and thought provoking dialog you have shared. Many have not had the opportunity to ponder the concepts that the two of you have discussed. What a refreshing change of pace for this forum.

former cultist Name posted: 2005-11-22 06:38:55

real victims

The women are real victims as are the members.The reason people don't come forward while they are still at the so-called church is because they are being manipulated by ep.It isn't until you are away and have a clear mind that you are able to realize that you were a part of a cult.And yes, dep is just as bad as the rest . His name is in all this mess, too. Oh yeah, let us not forget one other victim. Yes, dp is a victim. I mean he would be getting no action if ep didn't send girls his way,not even his own wife! Oh, but there is still one more willing participant isn't there dp?

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 07:44:09

hearer

Of course, I can't speak for member but somhow I feel that this may be true with him/her. The thought provoking dialogue that you spoke of did not come immediately when I read what many of the Kingdom Message proclaimers were espousing. I was so set in traditionalism that it was very difficult to break away from the condemnation taught at most churches. Many times I would declare that I just can't see that, however rather than discarding it I would "put on the shelf of my mind" and as I studied the supporting scriptures and compared the translations of the King James to the original Hebrew and Greek, things started to come together. example: look up eternal in the strongs and you will see that it comes from the word aion, which does not mean eternal at all, rather it means for a time, therefore having an end. It's seemingly little things like this that have set me free to love and worship the Lord without condemnation. This does not mean that I am holier than thou, but it does mean that I know where I orginated (Alpha) and I do know where I am going (Omega). ....I found that most people who read the bible do so in a rote manner, thereby losing the joy of the true gospel (good news). It is not good news to me to think that my loved ones and friends may spend an eternity in hell.(study Gehenna and learn the origin). It is good news to know that I have a God that loves me unconditionally and is faithful to forgive me my sins, tho there may be the fires of purging to accomplish this. Is. 54:16. ...I don't mean to go on so long, but to me this is the best news. As member and I think Jim related to some great writers, Hawtin, Adams, Warnock, J. Preston Eby. Check them out and open your bible to make sure they are not leading you astray. Peace to you.

Observer Name posted: 2005-11-22 08:33:41

Jim Hart and DEP

Who is Jim Hart and what is his connection to EP? People seem to keep knocking DEP but every sermon I have ever heard him preach was very inspiring. I wonder what I am missing. It seems to me that he has kept himself far afield from his uncle's and father's mess. Granted, every teen boy or young man make poor choices when growing up, especially if they are surrounded by a family culture of mess. But when one becomes a man, then they become accountable. That doesn't mean that their choices as young men or teens don't cause painful memories that must be dealt with or forgiven, but if DEP made poor choices before he became a pastor I cannot hold that over his head if he genuinely repented and has not gone back to that sin. From what I see DEP has lived out different life choices than his elders. I cannot imagine him ever wanting to go back to CHHC let alone take it over. His ministry now has been such a blessing to me and my family and I have come to trust him. Also from the messages that Bishop Ramirez preached when he was here, I feel like DEP finally has true Godly accountability which EP and DP lacked.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 08:53:37

observer

you may be totally correct. I don't think DEP would come back to take over the cathedral. After all, God called him into a different ministry to a specific need and age group. I have heard him speak many times and actually find no fault with his messages other than the immaturity sometimes shown. Though we listen to many sermons, we don't get something out of every one, but maybe that sermon was for someone else at a particular time in their life. No preacher can appease all paritioners. The only question I would have if he came back to the cathedral would be "did you miss the will of God when you left or are you missing it now"? Or has God changed his purpose for DEP. Of course that purpose would be suspect in the minds of most members there, depending on the "change of the guard" and who he surrounded himself with. I do believe that there would be another exodus if he returned, whether it be fair or not. Spelling again Jurrius, fare is what you pay for a bus trip.

Hearer Name posted: 2005-11-22 11:55:17

Careful

This may not be the forum to broach the following query and I will be suited if you respond or decline. As I know, we do not espouse to any one man's complete ideology, but I would very much like to compare thoughts on what part if any of the Carlton Pearson teachings fit into your beliefs. I must admit that some of his teachings go along with findings from my own studies,especially the finished work of the cross. (I hope that I don't open the door to a rampage here.) Many people misunderstand him and say he does not believe in accountability but that is not true. I know that many others have taught similar ideas for years and never stirred up much controversy. If you would prefer to restrain remark I will remain most respectful of you.

john jurrius Name posted: 2005-11-22 12:54:25	careful
	you have answered yourself. It's not being holier than thou, it is being,feeling, and knowing you are at peace with youself. The holy ghost is what your conjur subconciously when you evoke thought of happiness and joy. Rejoice my friend, Rejoice.

member Name posted: 2005-11-22 13:36:09

Pearson

The "ideology" or teachings that Pearson puts forth have to do with the "finished work" of the cross. The terminology being used could be "ultimate reconciliation". The scriptural basis or foundation for the teaching is Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. and Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life. Romans 5:17-19 Tradition believes the first part that ALL men are condemned without any action on the individual. They refuse to believe that ALL men are reconciled without any act on the individual.. It comes down to whether you believe that the death of Jesus reconciled some or all men……Here is one man's humble perspective……. The word of God is sharper than any two-edge sword, to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit. It is the division of the soul and spirit that must be understood. We have been created in His likeness. We were first created in the mind of God. He is Spirit and we are ultimately Spirit at the very base. It is this Spirit that has been reconciled. Reconciliation is an accounting term. You can’t reconcile what was never yours. We were separated in the garden but what many fail to understand is that we were reconciled prior to the separation. How? The Bible states that He was a “lamb slain from the foundation of the world�. That is, before Adam was ever created, before Adam had ever sinned. Jesus had died. Spirit Separation was the intent of the Father. Why the reason for Spirit Separation is another topic. When God form the shell of a man, He not only breath Life into the shell, but also breathe in Adam or Adam's identity (operating system) the same identity He was speaking of when He told Jeremiah, “ I knew you before you were in your Mother's belly.� Where did God fore-know Jeremiah? In Himself. Himself being Spirit and Creator, John 1:4 says that In Him was the Life and that Life is the Light of Men. Light always refers to Revelation or Knowledge. The act of Life entering into the shell produced the following passage in Genesis, “and He became a living soul.� The act of a Spirit name Adam entering the shell gave the “living soul� it’s identity and base (bios) programming. The Bible through study and revelation shows the separation or dividing asunder of the soul and spirit. The Bible says the “when the body dies, the spirit returns to the creator who gave it,� thereby leaving the soul in darkness (Hell) with no spirit and life. BUT THE SPIRIT RETURNS IMMEDIATELY WITH OR WITHOUT A SAVED SOUL IN TOW. But remember the Soul in Hell is not there forever (see previous post concerning “aion�). I will prove this with scripture. 10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10-16 but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: (Studying the Hebrew root for brimstone will bring you to the word “theos�) which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 How can souls be in hell forever and at some time also be taken out of hell as verse 13 elaborates? You can’t have it both ways. Now the question begs, “What is the Lake of Fire?� If you will study every mention of fire throughout the Bible, you will find the Father God at work. Flaming Swords at the Gate, Wall of Fire by night to the Children of Israel, Burning bush to Moses. All consuming fire, Fell as cloven tongues of fire. Any many more. Why would the pattern change for one chapter in the Bible? If He truly is the Alpha and Omega then this makes perfect sense. If He has reconciled all things to Himself then this is where it happens! But woe to the “Unsaved� or Vessels of Dishonor. Again with scripture: Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. This is destruction but not in the sense as we understand it. It is a another opportunity for the word “asunder� What God hath joined together, (Let) No man can put asunder. This means a division or separation not obliteration. The Soul still has Life and He would not damn a part of Himself to an eternal Hell. So we now have the Soul being cast into the “Lake of Fire� or the Father. Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust and SPIRIT TO SPIRIT. Now we are left with the PURPOSE of the saved soul. Do you know what purpose is? I’m not sure that this is the position of Pearson, but He does believe in Ultimate Reconciliation of All things. Oh and by the way, In order for something to be eternal, it has to not only have no end but no beginning either. Jesus said, “I am the first-borne of many sons.� He had to put on immortality the same as we do, by becoming one with the Father. “That they may be one, even as you and I are one.� But be warned, before I received this word into myself, I was a popular evangelist in a major denomination. Today, I am not so popular.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 13:58:37

hearer

I am always happy to give my opinion on any subject. Keep in mind that I, like member, often scratch my head in wonder. Jurrius has eloquently stated that one must have being, feeling, and knowing you are at peace with yourself. I feel that peace knowing that I wish no harm to anyone, even those that disagree very vehemently even to the point of condescension. You should know that Carlton Pearson is and was not the origin of this teaching. However, CP is the most widely known at this "present time" to teach the concept of universal salvation. As you must be aware, he has suffered much from this teaching, just as Jesus and his followers suffered persecution from the church during His incarnation. This was new to them and they couldn't think for themselves, if it wasn't in the Holy Scriptures in black and white, it was heresy. Yet we find 2000 years later that the Holy Scriptures all pointed to His coming and purpose. Christ did not do away with those scriptures or laws, He simply fulfilled them and gave us a better covenant. Now to answer your question on how I feel about the teaching....I believe that Christ died for the sins of the world, to include all men, additionally His blood is what has saved us and not what we do, think, say, or act. His blood has all power and we have nothing to do with it. If we had anything to do with it, He would not be all powerful and His sovereignty would be null and void. Whether we believe or whether we don't changes nothing with the Lord. If Jesus could forgive those that killed him, what makes us think he will not forgive the sins of the world. Everyone can quote John 3:16 but few can quote John 3:17. I firmly believe in the universal reconcillation of all mankind, I do believe that there will be and now is a purging and cleansing by the fire of God. I do not believe the traditional teachings on eternal punishment in a burning pit of agony. If God is the Alpha(the beginning) and He is the Omega (the end) I believe that is the entirety of creation. He did not say He was the Omega for everyone except.....He said Omega period. Member has put it very well when he spoke of the left hand of God. You see God uses evil to accomplish His purpose and will. I know I will catch a lot of flack, but I list these scriptures for you to ponder: Eccl 11:5, Amos 3:6, Isiah 45:7,Judges 9:23,ISam 16:4, IKings: 22:23, Ezek 14:14,20, Matt 4:1, I Cor 5:5, ITim 1:20, IICor 12:7, Eph I:II, IJn 4:9, Rom 5:6, Rom II:6, Matt 5:45, Luke 6:35. These are on the crust of digging that must be done to establish a viable reasoning for my belief, but they are only a start. I hope not to offend anyone, but you asked a pointed and pertinent question. I have done my best to answer concisely. Peace to you.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 15:59:14	to member
	thank you, I would love to know you and talk with you in a closed forum. don't know what denomination, but I do know that the word you now carry, though unpopular to the masses, is "good news". thanks again.

Tony Orlando Name posted: 2005-11-22 16:42:48	Control Freak
	Some in the past have labeled EP as a control freak. However, it is very interesting that the one controlling this blog is removing posts that are unanswerable. Be vigilant. Lest you become the thing you hate! Tony Orlando will press on.

dawn Name posted: 2005-11-22 16:46:22	tony
	where have you been? been looking for you for years!

careful Name posted: 2005-11-22 16:49:47	to hearer
	pull up Andrew Jukes and his letter in 1890

Tony Orlando Name posted: 2005-11-22 17:50:24

Dawn

Hey Dawn. I am making a comeback. You know, the Latin scene is muy caliente right now. I'll attempt to post this again. Bishop Jay Ramirez is a man of integrity, character and honor. I have a cousin who lives near the YALE campus in CT and knows of him. Check him out for yourself. If DE is under his covering, wouldn't that give us the impression that he is in search of a new path? I am a friend of DE's from the past. We played basketball together but we have lost touch over the past four or five years. However, in a few moments of vulnerability he expressed to me his desire to end the family dysfunction. I am sure he had an active teenage life, who didn't? But, as far as I know, he has been a faithful husband and stayed clear of indiscretion. If a case or allegation against someone is solely built on their teenage or unmarried years I fear for us all! I do have knowledge that Bishop Ramirez gave DE some money a while ago. However, I also know Bishop Eddie Long paid off Jesse Kerney's house when he started New Mercies Church. Is this a sin? If it's not done to manipulate or from the wrong funds, who cares? Also, I know DE made a small load on a real estate - rental property deal. I borrowed a little money about two years ago (that I paid back). So, if DE submits to Ramirez it is not, in my opinion, because of him being a sugar daddy. I visited Grace about six months ago (DE did not see me). Anyway, I saw about 400 or so in attendance. Unless this recent media report has affected Grace I would guess they are doing ok, that is if some would let him move on. By the way, I attend Word of Faith (Bishop Bronner) and would encourage anyone to check it out. I love DE but live too far to drive to his church with these wonderful gas prices. I hope people will let him escape the vicious cycle and not share the guilt of causing further hurt. I have an idea. Let's keep DE from making positive change and pray that he can repeat the family cycle. How about it partner? That way, the blog lives forever. It's alive!!! DE, if you are here...two things: Keep your head up white bread, and, get off of this blog, it can only hurt you. Much Love from the DECK!

dawn Name posted: 2005-11-22 18:04:36

tony

things have always been hot on the latin scene, how about charro? agree that DEP should not be judged by the actions of ancestors. don't agree with the part before marriage. all are still responsible no matter the marital status. agree he's not the only one. hope he does well at Grace. have been there, thought it good for that genre, but a bit challenging for the older crowd. agree he should avoid even reading this blog. although there are some good thought provoking postings. if we can get rid of the trashings, maybe it can become positive.

Tony Orlando Name posted: 2005-11-22 18:27:52

Dawn

seems we're mostly in agreement. nice to see a blogger with a shred of objectivity. let's start a mutual admiration society? agree we have the command to remain untainted before marriage, it's God's way, just haven't met any that accomplished it recently. in theory you're right. in application may be difficult. agree marital status doesn't matter. disagree that age does not matter. hope God does not remember the sins of my youth! agree charro does rock!

dawn Name posted: 2005-11-22 19:07:27	tony
	cutchie, cutchie!

exchhc Name posted: 2005-11-22 21:18:47	Why
	Why don't you all come to the yahoo group blog? We were asked to leave here. What are you rebellious or somethin? A stiff neck people? LOL

Hearer Name posted: 2005-11-22 22:08:55

Member, Careful

Thank you both for your generous responses. Although I have been studying along these lines for some time, you have both given me a great deal of confirmation and pointed me in some exciting directions with the scriptures and other references. I did take the time to read a great deal of the writings of Jukes and look forward to continuing my study when time allows. I am preparing to go out of town in the morning. I will take my laptop in hopes of getting back on while I am away. I appreciate the time that you took to respond to me. I too would very much like to meet you both. Having come from a background that conformed to the doctrine of eternal damnation, I have very few aquaintances with whom to share these topics. Your words are easy to follow and your passion for truth is a gift to me and others. The reward of truth far outweighs the unpopularity.

bitforbyte Name posted: 2005-11-22 22:56:12	Slippery
	Has anything been deleted lately?

S. Perdue Name posted: 2005-11-22 23:18:00

Inspiration

everyday when you're walking down the street everybody that you meet, has an original point of view. and i say hey, what a wonderufl kind of day if we can learn to work and play and get along with each other. you've got to listen to your heart, listen to the rhythm, open up your eyes, get together and make things better by working together. it's a simple message and it comes from the heart, oh believe in yourself for that's the place to start. and i say hey, what a wonderful kind of day, to learn to work and play and get along with each other. what a wonderful kind of day, hey, what a wonderful kind of day, hey!

News. Name posted: 2005-11-22 23:32:31	psssssst!
	Ill tell you who controlls this blog/website. It is the camp of Bobby, Mona and Cindy. Every fact posting involving their names, gets deleted! Try it, you'll see!

yawn dawn Name posted: 2005-11-22 23:34:40	Former cultist
	How much blame can people put off on others for their own mistakes?

Pimp Name posted: 2005-11-22 23:37:13	HO' in da house
	If I allow my wife to sleep with a man, to insure my position of employment, secure the transaction of property sales, and large amounts of money. Is this not prostitution and have I not pimped my wife out?

xoxoxox Name posted: 2005-11-22 23:43:23	observer
	If you think Donnie Earl's a man of God, I guess you also send Jan Crouch your money! As far as Bishop Ramirez,he is named with many others like Geno, as being involved with Cindy in the court record. Spoken and recored by her own testimony. Or should that be test-o-money?

If Name posted: 2005-11-23 06:06:58	S. Perdue
	I believe you have left the juice alone for Thanksgivin'. I am so proud of you! Thanx for the words of inspiration. I'm glad to have you as a friend.

ADMIN Name posted: 2005-11-23 07:10:01	Paulk
	We appreciate the activity and contributions in posting. However this topic is to hard to police and to many things are being said with bad tast and capweb is more geared to political issues as opossed to Religious issues. We kindly ask that you continue your chat on another site.

Another Ex Member Name posted: 2005-11-23 07:15:23	Please stop
	Why do you continue to gossip on this blog? Is this picture of Christianity we want to show 'Capweb.net'

Another Ex Member Name posted: 2005-11-23 07:15:54	Please stop
	Why do you continue to gossip on this blog? Is this picture of Christianity we want to show 'Capweb.net'

Working man Name posted: 2005-11-23 07:41:24	Admin
	If you were an administrater I believe you would be someone who could spell. Ex. opossed and tast. Try again.

wm Name posted: 2005-11-23 07:47:04	adm
	this blog has the titled removed, if you are the true administrator, tell us what we are supposed to talk about. Adminsitrators are able to police what they allow or they discontinue the entire blog and do not ask for anonymous contributors to stop. Get real, you may not like what you read, but try something else rather than subterfuge!

observer Name posted: 2005-11-23 08:19:14	to xoxoxo
	If Bishop Ramirez were named in someone's court testimony, then why has he not been called down or subpoenaed? You have your information wrong for sure.

former cultist Name posted: 2005-11-23 08:32:59

reply

The women who are the victims in all of this mess are the only ones who have accepted responsiblity for what they have done. They are trying to prevent ep,dp and the rest of his clan from hurting anyone else. ep,dp,lm, dep,etc have never accepted responsibility for their actions.What about lm who told jessica that she was to be a vessel of god for ep !!!! At 7 years old???? What about the paulks blackmailing staff members to make sure that they can't leave? Also, if you have never been "inside" and "in the know" ,you wouldn't understand how everything works.

exchhc Name posted: 2005-11-23 10:16:08	Former Cultist
	Do you know for a fact that LM told Jessica that she was a vessel for God for EP at age 7? That is SO SICK. LM needs mental help just like her mother did.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 10:34:42	DEP Ramirez and more
	Ramirez is not in Cindy's depositon and DEP is in both Cindy and Mona's. It was DEP who is still following his dad's footsteps you decide which is dad and which is uncle. DEP is using Ramirez and Ramirez is willing to let him be used. DEP is just as corrupt as his uncle and Dad (earl and don or don and earl) you can spell it Paulk, Swilley, or Mushegan but it is still corrupt at the core.

Lewis Name posted: 2005-11-23 13:16:56	Paulk Swilley Mushegan
	Birds of a feather flock together. The family ties are too strong. The sin is too strong also.

Grace Name posted: 2005-11-23 13:33:08

Paulk back to surgery

I guess you are already aware that EP was back in surgery last night for some repair work on the first surgery. For all the interest in Sunday mornings the rumor around here is that it will stay all in the family cannot risk exposure to someone taking a stand. Hanby has refused a visit, Reed has refused a visit, Huskins has refused a visit, so now it will be up to the family pollution to continue. Guess is that it will rotate between DEP, Mushegan, and Swilley. What is left of the young girls beware. The next few weeks will be interesting. No one has hardly shown up for work this week because they are not being paid. Of course (Zoo)Lee and Rob Hunter are being paid. Go figure.

Plain truth Name posted: 2005-11-23 17:26:58

mamber, careful

Something to ponder! Do you believe FALSE PROPHETS think they are wrong? Of course they think they are right and everyone else is wrong or ignorant. They believe they have the enlightenment, or insight, or understanding that few other people have. Even when their message is rejected, they still believe they are the ones who are right...DOES THAT SEEM LIKE PRIDE TO YOU? (I have found that if it is of God, it will be accepted and will not contradict any part of the Bible. If fact, it will honor and glorify Jesus. If the message doesn't, it is false and not from God.)

whoareyou Name posted: 2005-11-23 17:33:00	whoareyou
	Bobby are you Randall, lewis and grace! Just wondering.

Member Name posted: 2005-11-23 17:36:35	Plain truth
	Are you describing Jesus and his message to the Pharisees of His day? It certainly was of God and glorified Himself. I guess it was false and not from God. I can follow that logic. Oh by the way they crucified him. :)

S. Perdue Name posted: 2005-11-23 17:50:20	Paulk's Righthand "ADMIN"
	Sumthin tells me Clairece is administerin' this heh site!

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:04:54	who are you
	Randall how do you know so much about the depositions? It seems that you know a lot about who said who about what. Only someone close to the situation or the attorneys would be privy to that information. You are giving yourself away old boy.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:19:52	who are you
	Come on know Randall, lewis and Grace why are you so quite? Let me hear some more of your enlightenment.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:21:57	who are you
	Correction Now not know!

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:28:27

Paulk Swilley Mushegan and more

I am a member at CHHC and want my church back from these counterfeit preachers that are taking advantage of our wives, daughters, sons, and pocketbooks, I can tell you that bobby brewer is probably as corrupt as the paulks, mushegan,and swilleys but I do know this much he is not in the pulpit trying to convince us of his greatness. I left CHHC and came back because I want to see them gone. It is my time, love, and money that they have used to party and screw around with. The descendants of EP Senior have some bad blood and only calling on the blood of Jesus is going to change that. I am not Bobby Brewer and would not want to be but neither will I keep quiet about these rascals pretending to speak for God who has already condemned these acts and the people who do them in His word.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:31:34	who are you
	Man you sound convincing but you have a half truth working.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:33:57	I know because
	I have talked with the brewers and the halls. They are not ashamed of their story they are ashamed that they ever got involved with the paulks. They take responsibility for their part in it and not seeing the light but again they are not the ones calling themselves apostles and prophets.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:34:34	I know because
	I have talked with the brewers and the halls. They are not ashamed of their story they are ashamed that they ever got involved with the paulks. They take responsibility for their part in it and not seeing the light but again they are not the ones calling themselves apostles and prophets.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:35:43	Randall
	Randall it is apparent you have an axe to grind with the current leadership but how do you know so much about the other people you named. How do you know about the depositions?

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:37:11	I answered that already
	People we must stop accusing those telling their stories and blaming them. When are we going to demand answers of those stonewalling and pretending to be saints?

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:40:40	Randall
	I am not questioning your right to post your feelings. I believe you have that right. I do question you mentioning depostions so freely and pointing fingers at people you dont know.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:41:14	Paulk Swilley Mushegan
	Who are you, Tell me my half truths. I can tell you the fiasco that pretended to be a sermon Sunday. I can tell you they lie when they say still running a couple of thousand. There were no more than eight hundred of us there Sunday. I will tell you the truth what is the half truth?

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:42:51	Paulk Swilley Mushegan
	I know all of the people I mentioned. Part of them told me their story the rest of them are invading my church and pretending to speak for God while holding up their uncle, father, and immorality.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:44:11

to plain truth

When does one determine that he is right or wrong? Rejection does not disqualify righteousness. Of course, there is only one righteousness and that is the righteousness of Christ. Your disqualification of the beliefs of others leaves one to wonder if you understand that you are placing yourself "slap dab in the middle" of where you are suggesting others may be. It is always dangererous to try and use logic when trying to understand the Kingdom of God. To me, it is not logical that one man would die for those that have never been born in the natural realm. It is not logical to go to a place for the purpose of putting yourself in emminent danger for the sake of others. It is not logical to place a man's ear back in place when he is taking you to your death. It is not logical when taken into custody by the religious sect of the day to refrain from arguing His point to gain His freedom. It is not logical to have the ability to call legions of Angels to slay your enemies, yet decline and yield to the wishes of the masses. It is not logical for Him who is crucified on the cross, made to endure excruciating torture and pain and then ask for this act not to be held at their charge with the Father. It is not logical for Jesus to get glory out of being put to death by those spewing traditional beliefs....Yet had He not been put to death by the religious world, would we be discussing Him today? One can never understand the spirit when operating out of the natural realm.....Did the Apostles who were almost all martyred, suffer from Pride? Did the religious sect of the day ascert that the apostles teachings were heresy and not from the Torah? Is it ironic that most scholars will teach that the Torah was never in conflict and these false prophets were actually fulfilling it?

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:44:56	Randall
	Tell me about the sermon Sunday, I am interested. The half truth is about the other names used and how you know each of them so intimately.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:45:19

By the way

I don't know Lewis. I think I know who Grace is but would not want to speculate to get her in trouble and she is an insider and I think will soon expose more than she has now and perhaps she has a story of her own to tell. I speak for me and me only with the exception there are several hundred others that feel the same way that are left. We keep praying no one will come in to help them prop this mess up and we can have our church back.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:47:24	Randall
	How do you know that the people you named believe the same way as the Paulks are would uphold unrighteousness?

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:49:37

Half truths

Staying focused when the winds around you are blowing. Never judging. The accuser of the brethren is the devil. The kingdoms of this world are falling, the judical system will never control the Kingdom of God. Sounds self serving to me. I don't know this ramirez guy but heard from the halls about his gift to DEP, but Cindy has named names and did to me and he was not one of them. That is the only person I named. NO half truths here.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:53:47

The Cathedral is unrighteous

Every family member that gets up in the pulpit upholds unrighteousness because the whole system has become corrupt. They can't get anyone but family to come in here because everyone with sense realizes the root is corrupt. Anyone that would preach here would have to be corrupt to come. Judy Jacobs is a woman but she had the balls to tell them like it is. The rest hide but at least they won't come only the corruption of family. DP has said they will keep it all in the family to not risk anything being said that could expose the truth. They have kept their sin all in the family and now the control of the church. We need to wise up and take action ourselfs even if that means a legal suit.

Who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:55:13	Randall
	Oh contraire you mentioned Swilley and Mushegan!

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:58:56	Randall
	I am still interested in the sermon Sunday!

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 18:59:03	That is family
	They are said to be supporting. I can include in that Bonner. DP has repeatedly said that all the family is standing together. That we would be hearing from the family. We don't want to hear from the family. We have suffered enough from the family. We want to hear from God. I said nothing about the swilleys and mushegans in deposition. Only in the pulpit and that still stands.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:02:07	Randall
	I can assure you i know one of those men you mentioned and he will not bow his knee to Baal.

Randall Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:03:12	I gave you the sermon already
	My little girl wants to use my computer and she is out of school tomorrow so I am going to let her. The sermon was two post back. I don't know what has you so uptight unless you are a paulk trying to identify your disgruntled flock...we are most all disgruntled but we will not leave you with our church. We made it great and you and your family are destroying it. Good night.

interested listener Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:04:19	randall
	what was the sermon about sunday?????????????didn't you hear the man/woman? were you there? stop defending yourself over and over, we get the message, there is no need. what was the sermon about?

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:04:46	Randall
	I am not a paulk!!!!! I can assure you.

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:06:18	to randall
	sorry, didn't know you were giving the sunday sermon, thought it was yours.

Big Mac Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:09:16	Paulk and Crew
	I don't go to church there. Would not go to church there. From what I have seen anyone who would even visit there must be insane or like sin alot.

Dawn Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:10:47	Paulk
	Way to go Big Mac. I am with you all the way. Randall, don't stay and try to save it. It is gone. HEY anyone with ears run the house is falling in all around you. No one with a pure heart could stomach that anymore.

newby Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:12:06	s. perdue
	dat womun kin tare dem keys up, cept dont no ifn she kin beatupon dem puter keys.

newby Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:15:50	dawn
	yose is wrng. jes de pu hearts kin stay cuz da dont juge. da jes hurt

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:16:51	Randall the sermon
	Like the other poster i thought that was what you were saying. Sorry for the press, i just didnt understand.

Member Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:31:09	Careful
	Can I carry your Bible for you? :)

careful Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:41:59	member
	you can invite me to your bible studies, I think I would really like to have plain truth and jurrius there. I really think they are sincere, let's don't forget hearer and Tony Orlando & Dawn

careful Name posted: 2005-11-23 19:49:50	member
	forgot about s. perdue, if, and newby. would like to have them if we had an interpreter. Do you think S. Georgia might send us one?

member Name posted: 2005-11-23 20:20:14	careful
	I speek flewent S. gaga

S. Perdue Name posted: 2005-11-23 20:31:48	Careful
	Whys dont we all jus start our own bible sezzion down in da basement of paulky's big house? that way we can git 'em up there to tha alta call!

Strike Three Name posted: 2005-11-23 20:51:20

Randall and all

To all who still remain at CHHC. This church is not going to make it. The final countdown to total implosion has already begun. The cathedral will sit and gather weeds and will be a sign and a wonder that speaks louder than words. EP wanted a testament to his ministry and he will have it. His legacy will be an abandoned ,surrounded and filled with overgrowth ,cathedral. It will be an enduring reminder that if you sow to the flesh you will reap corruption. It will continue to "preach" to passerbyers even for years, that though you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time - eventually that which is within will be made manifest. The Paulk legacy will be a most sordid legacy. It will contaminate and bring down every associate and family member that doesn't clearly distance himself/herself from EP- BEFORE it all comes crashing down. You will not be believed if you wait to declare how you are "appalled" after the fact. There is a slim door of opportunity for those pastors and family members around EP - to wake up, to get clean, and to make a clear step of righteousness. Dan Rhodes, you have just days to rescue or resurrect any righteousness you ever had. Wake up ! Snap out of it! ...And to Randall, I feel for you but I must tell you too - Wake up! There will be no remnant that carries on. What will soon be coming out will be so public and so shameful that it will leave an almost visible stamp of "Ichabod" over the Cathedral. It will be a testament of what is the end of an Ahab ministry (Earl) when it marries a Jezebel (Lynn). The Cathedral grounds will be a favorite hangout for dogs and that too will be a sign.It is finished. It is over...Donnie Earl, I believe that something in you wants to make a stand for righteousness. If you are ever going to do it NOW IS THE TIME. Come clean and confess all you did and all you know. Start a new legacy of your own. If you do not do it quickly and strongly you too will become a byword and will carry a lifetime shame and stigma that you will never be able to shake. You have been trained and instructed in "damage control" but FULL repentance will be the ONLY remedy for the damage that is upon you. Do not accept pastoring the cathedral or you will be casting your lots with that which will soon be flushed as a toilet.

Robby Dawkins Name posted: 2005-11-23 21:18:57

Strike Three

Aaaaaaammmmmeeeeennn! I have seen and sensed the exact same word. I shared specifically with Lynn Mays and Beth Paulk Bonner before I left that if they didn't turn from this stuff, God would expose it on national television within 6 months. That (then) was only the tremors before the earth-ripping quake that is about to take place (now). The time is now! This is the time for Courageous Leaders to step up and speak the truth, if any still remain at CHHC or in present "supportive (non-truth-confronting)" family. May God bless the courage of Cindy Hall and Mona Brewer! Don't throw stones at them - to do so is to deny God has His hand in this cleansing. This is a warning to all of us (I include myself) in ministry in any capacity. God is cleaning His house and getting it in order.

former cultist Name posted: 2005-11-24 04:50:09	Thanksgiving
	On this national holiday, let all of us that have seen the light be truly thankful!

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-24 05:21:13	to Robby
	Don't you ever have an original thought? You play on the ability of your wife to write, and then you jump on the coat tail of another when they post something you wish you could have written. Is it that you just want to be noticed? Well, if that is the case, you HAVE BEEN NOTICED, but consider the light you have put yourself in.

former cultist Name posted: 2005-11-24 06:11:40	int listener
	Lay off Robby. Are you as big a jerk in person as you come across in posting? I think that Robby is a wonderful person who is only guilty of rescuing his wife from a very dangerous and potentially devastating situation. Hmmmm...a man who truly loves and protects his wife! What a novel idea!

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-24 07:15:57	former cultist
	are you his mother? it appears that his wife is doing the rescuing! but now he has you. Good! precious wonderful person needs all the help he can get. ...by the way, don't you know that all you have done is kindled the fire and brought his ineptness more to the light?

mesmerized Name posted: 2005-11-24 07:48:16

all

I have been captivated by the postings on this blog. This is my first and only entry! However, I pose questions for both sides. To those that condemn the alleged actions, Where have you been in voicing your outrage for the last 13 years, are you sincere in wanting a change or vengenance? Or do you just want to gossip? If you have all of this information, have you come forward to the authorities or those outside leaders to enact change? In short, what have you done other than run your mouth in anonymnity? BB and associates are at least being open and taking action they think is necessary, whether for personal gain, revenge, or vicariously helping the members of CHHC. Would he have done this if he hadn't got mad about the money? Did he know what was going on all of those years? How could he have not known since he was in the "inner circle" of the Paulk dynasty? Do you as complainers think you have done what you should simply by posting here now that someone has brought to the fore front the alleged incidents? Now it's questions for the supporters or hesitant CHHC members. What will be your stand if, as alleged on this site, all of the charges are proven and even more come out? How will you handle the disdain you will get from all outsiders and the "I told you so" comments from the other side? Will you continue to respect the Paulks as you are apparently doing now? Will you give up on church altogether? Will you ever be able to trust leadership again?The big question: do you follow blindly out of devotion or maybe even pity? With EPs own admission of adultery, the history of the family in this arena are you sure that all of the charges are false?******now my statement to both sides------don't fight among yourselves and write deflammatory statements simply because you disagree. You detractors should know that the present members are going to suffer just as you have if this comes down as you say. Therefore, where is your compassion for them? You that remain, don't condemn those that share their experiences. They have already been hurt, understand their hurt and pray for them. There is a third component-----THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER yet they want to run their mouth and chime in on garbage. To those I would suggest that you "GET A LIFE"!

Strike Three Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:06:51

Robby

Hey Robby...You have been taking a lot of 'hits' on this blog but I appreciate your perseverance. It probably has all been the same 2 or 3 people... I have remained with a concealed identity but only so as not to be a distraction from my message. I think you and Angie have done well going on record and staying strong despite personal attacks...I know you and Angie well and you know me. Here's your hint at who I am- We both know a guy named Mickey...But keep it quiet for now...I have more obvious hints if needed.

jim Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:08:54	all
	I wasn't going to post again, but I thought you should know what you are dealing with. Someone, by the name of Grace sent me an e-mail and I post it here:......This message has been processed by Symantec AntiVirus. 12.exe was infected with the malicious virus Trojan.Lodear.D and has been deleted because the file cannot be cleaned.

KE Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:18:34

To "Who are you"

You sound like Satan! Your posts are so creepy you must be a Paulk! OMG!!!!!! OMG!!!!!! OMG!!!!!! Besides, what do you care if it is BB, or MB, or CH, or little seven year old JB? This is America. Thank God predators don’t do to well to preserve themselves here anymore. Ya know what I mean, it’s not like it use to be. I’m delighted that a just God is cleaning up that mess. I am glad he is dying, and before he goes, he is seeing his failure! EP and family is a butt of all the jokes. NO ONE respects them anymore. His false prophesies never came to pass. What a way to die,,,exposed! Amen! There is a God!

I know Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:21:53	Mickey
	You both go to disney land. Mickey mouse, so you must be daffy duck. I love your cartoons.

Who Are You Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:29:34

Satan?

Dear KE I am not Satan but I did want understanding. I do not stand for unrighteousness in any form so you have judged me falsely. I do hold to these verses Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God loves the sinner as much as the saint. I just wanted to know why the attacks on those who are not involved. Signed Very curious

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:34:38	KE
	I am curious, since you want death for EP, would you restore him if you could?

Who Are you Name posted: 2005-11-24 08:40:15	Int listener
	Great point!

Thanks Name posted: 2005-11-24 09:01:12

For all

Have a Happy Thanksgiving. I hope everyone gives thanks to God for loving them as they are today. I am so glad that God does not treat us like man does when we make mistakes. People who are really members of CHHC know that a lot of information posted here is not true. But we also know that it is hard for someone on the outside to weed out the truth from fiction. Only God knows how this situation will end. And when it does end, may we be able to forgive each other and learn some lessons that will enable us to move on and live better lives. Thank God there are still people who believe in restoration.

KE Name posted: 2005-11-24 09:18:32

Would I restore him?

It depends on what you mean by restore......If you mean if he were to come clean about everything, including ALL of the child abuse, and then made amends to the people he harmed,,,, then that would be just great. Unfortunately, it is a little late for that. And anyways, individuals with narcissistic PD & SPD never admit they are wrong. And even then, he (along with the other predators) should NEVER again be in an authority position in any church or religious organization. That is my issue with DEP...if he is such a respectable man with integrity, why is he still trying to be preacher? The past has shown that anyone with Paulk/Swilley blood should RUN from religious positions. (Predators are always attracted to positions of authority and power.) Now, let me ask you a question. If you are so concerned about restoring, what about restoring JB, MB, CB, BB, and the list goes on and on and on………How can you support and defend a known child molester (Believe me; there will be more to come out about that my friend), and someone who has turned so many away from believing in God? He has done more to help satans cause. Hmmmm, didn’t Jesus talk about people like that? I personally know tons of x-CHHC people who refuse to step foot into a church. I guess I’m a little more concerned about restoring them.

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-24 09:42:54

KE

Your refrain was quite revealing! Your restoration is conditional! another question----aren't you glad that Jesus forgives unconditionally? what makes you think I support anyone? is it because I asked a pointed question? I pray that all will be restored to include those you mentioned. Do you think it is possible that this blog has become a maelstrom? Would you not feel better if you could be relieved of the contempt you have? Please don't look to respond defensively, rather use to look introspectively and objectively analyze what you see. Obviously, you are very hurt and you deserve peace, but my dear, it comes from within.

Robby Dawkins Name posted: 2005-11-24 09:48:55	Strike Three
	I figured as much. Angie knew immediately when she first read your posts. I agree with your anonymity approach for the purpose of the message. E-mail me at robbydawkins@yahoo.com when you get a chance.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:07:38

strike three

Spoken like a true traditionalist! Make sure you don't waste new wineskins on that batch. Old ones will do just fine. I do not poke fun as I know that you actually believe what you are saying. It's just a shame that you can't see the good news about God's forgiveness being unconditionally and freely given. You don't really see the importance of the blood of Jesus! You are even making his death conditional, we must do something or it was to no avail. You are continually making it an act of works. Do you still burn bulls and doves?

Robby Dawkins Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:11:53	int listener
	My mother passed away 6 years ago. But, I have the feeling you recall the conversation we had a few years ago about her passing, before it was necessary for you to assume another/multiple identities.

int listener Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:22:34

Robby

Now who is assuming multiple identies, have never had a conversation with you about your mother or anyone else. Would not know you if I saw you personally. Your intentions may be good, but your ability to communicate them is questionable. ...and of course, I see that I must explain about the statement "are you his mother". I was noting the maternal position taken by former cultist not your actual mother.-----but naturally you chose - carpe diem--to corner sympathy by stating that your mother died 6 years ago. You have my sympathy there, however you should avoid getting into a battle of wits---especially since you are unarmed.

Strike Three Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:29:09

careful

I assume that you are either Carlton Pearson or at least an "ultimate reconciliationist". Apparently you believe we will be spending eternity "accompanied by satan and all his minions - because the blood of Jesus is enough to cover all. That would be why you believe Paulk does not need even to repent to enjoy eternity in heaven. Apparently for you repentance is a "work" equivalent to the blood of bulls being sacrificed. WOW, what a doctrine of devils that is! If you will remember the original passover, Israel was not forgiven or "passed over" just because the blood was AVAILABLE. It had to be APPLIED to the doorposts and then they were spared judgment. Repentance is "applying the blood" - without it there is NO ULTIMATE RECONCILIATION. To reject His blood provision is to trample on the very spirit of grace that wishes to save us...If this is your "new wineskin" you'd better leave it quickly, as the end of that wineskin is communion with hell.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:33:46	strike three
	If I remember correctly the blood over the door posts in Goshen was not for forgiveness. It was for identification to the destroyer. They were not spared judgement, they were spared their first born. Please read it again.

Robby Dawkins Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:38:43

careful regarding Strike 3

It is sooooo typical of people who are fruit of CHHC to accuse those who are making a call for repentance of being "Old School", "old wine skin/new wineskin" and they're just being "religious" analogies. Those replies are of the same spirit of the one who chopped off the head of John the Baptist. A murderer may change his heart, ask forgiveness and be forgiven. Yet he still must face judgment. There is no malice in this for us. Our cry is to hear the warning and be spared the ROCK falling on you and crushing you to powder(a quote from Jesus).

careful Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:51:13

robby

I have not been on your case and will endeavor to stay off. However, you must know what the rock meant? Do you as a pastor actually know the procedure for stoning a person in the bible. ----If convicted the individual must be convicted after a thorough investigation from the allegations of two or more witnesses. If convicted, the person was bound taken through the city gate to a point of execution. The point must be a drop off point twice the heighth of the accussed. The first witness shoved the accussed over the edge and the person had to land on his/her back. The second witness then heaved a heavy stone and threw it down on the accussed, striking just above the heart. The intent was to explode the heart. If this killed the person the execution was complete. If it did not, then the others in the crowd would pick up stones and hurl them upon the accussed until he/she was dead. This is the way Stephen died. By the way, Stephen also said forgive them before he died!...Romans 9:17 clearly states that Pharoah was in the will of God when he committed the atrocities against the Israelites. When did he repent?

Strike Three Name posted: 2005-11-24 10:54:54

careful

Where do you learn this poisoned theology? Is that what is taught at EP Academy? Why do you think Jesus is called "the passover lamb" and that He died at Passover? The OT story was type and shadow of the future truth of redemption. The firstborn dying WAS the judgment. The same truth applies today - When the Lord "sees the blood" applied to the doorposts of our hearts the "angel of death" passes over and we escape judgement. If no blood is applied to our doorposts - then NO FORGIVENESS IS GRANTED even though there was/is plenty of blood to cover all sins. This is Christianity 101. His sacrifice was complete and awesome - BUT He forces His blood on no one.

who are you Name posted: 2005-11-24 11:04:47

Dawkins

Dear Mr Dawkins I don’t know you, have never seen you but man are you messed up. How can you take the analogy of a man committing murder, repenting and then still facing judgement with the love, forgiveness of Jesus Christ. You had better hope that your sins have been forgiven and washed away, I think it is as white as snow if I remember, for if not then all of us are going to face harsh judgement.

careful Name posted: 2005-11-24 11:34:54

strike three

I didn't attend cathedral academy, I didn't attend your cemetaries, oops..meant to say seminaries, didn't take christianity 101, I did however spend time to read the Bible and many supporting historical publications. I did attempt to learn how biblical terms of the day were viewed at the time they were spoken. I did not arbitrarily assign my unsupported ideas to comparisons that have no comparison. Oh by the way, I gave up my seat on the Sanhedrin court, do you miss me?

careful Name posted: 2005-11-24 12:17:45	strike three
	thought about this little tid bit and wanted to share. You said we escape judgement....however, consider this scripture:Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. ----does all mean all?

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